But back to London's 4Q4s. The Country department had a large number of antiquated relics rattling around from the takeover, and wanted a standard bus. The 4Q4 filled the need. The model chosen had a centre doorway on the nearside, and seated 38, with bench seats over the engine and front nearside wheelarch and seats in the front corner alongside the driver. They were designed with conductor operation in mind, of course, as regulations prohibited one man operation for buses carrying more than twenty passengers.
Chassis: AEC Q, 18ft 6in wheelbase, AEC A170 oil engine
Body: Birmingham Railway Carriage and Wagon Co, 27ft 6in, B38C (later B35C).
An unusual styling feature was the sloping roof: the bus was appreciably higher at the front,
with the roof and gutter sloping down to the rear.
The back of the bus had a normal rear window,
so there had to be an offside emergency door.
This was fitted in behind the engine, so two longish window bays became two with a doorway in the middle.
This made the offside something of a pot-pourri stylistically. The nearside,
with the doorway occupying the bay behind the front wheel, was much better.
At the front a curved profile was achieved by having the flat windscreens in two halves,
each openable, with windscreen wipers on both top halves. Headlights were set low and wide,
sidelights were built into the front corners of the roof,
and a foglight was installed low on the nearside.
A triangular AEC badge adorned the rather bald front.
Livery was two shades of green, separated by a black line, with black guards.
Inside, the finish would be recognisable to any post-war rider of RTs or Routemasters,
with the rexine colour change halway up the window pillars.
It was a very stylish motor indeed,
that would not have looked out of place if produced twenty years later.
It was worlds different from the antiques that they displaced: ADCs, Tilling Stevens and Thorneycrofts mainly.
| Dates | Route No | Route | Garage |
|---|---|---|---|
| July 35 | 306 | New Barnet - Watford - Leavesden | WA |
| July 35 | 311/A | Shenley - Watford - Leavesden | WA |
| July, Aug 35 | 312 | Little Bushey - Watford | WA |
| July, Aug 35 | 335 | Watford - Rickmansworth - Windsor | WA |
| July 35 | 499 | Dartford local service | DT |
| July 35 | 353 | Berkhamsted - Amersham - Windsor | MA |
| July 35 | 362 | Ley Hill - Amersham - High Wycombe | MA |
| August, Oct 35 | 303 | New Barnet - Hatfield - Hitchin | HF, HG |
| August, Oct 35 | 340 | New Barnet - Hatfield | HF, HG |
| August, Oct 35 | 341 | St Albans - Hatfield - Hertford | HF, HG |
| August, Oct 35 | 418 | Kingston - Leatherhead - Gt Bookham Stn | LH |
| Sept, Oct 35 | 317 | WT | |
| Sept, Oct 35 | 318 | Abbotts Langley - Watford - Hemel Hempstead | WT |
| Sept, Oct 35 | 318A | Abbotts Langley - Watford - Bucks Hill | WT |
| Sept, Oct 35 | 318B | Garston - North Watford | WT |
| Sept, Oct 35 | 385 | Watford local service | WT |
| Sept 35 | SJ | ||
| Sept 35 | WY | ||
| Sept 35 | DG | ||
| Oct, Nov 35 | DS | ||
| Oct 35 | GD | ||
| Oct 35 | RG | ||
| Nov 35 | DS | ||
| Nov 35 | GF | ||
| Dec 35 | WR | ||
| Dec 35, July 36 | SA |
Two more were ordered, and arrived in July 1936. Q186 and Q187 went new to St Albans.
During the spring and summer of 1936 the front nearside seats were removed, and a bulkhead and door installed, making them now B35C.
In October 1936 twenty-seven 4Q4s were withdrawn from bus duties for conversion to GreenLine coaches.
These were Q81-105, 186-187. The twenty seven were replaced by new 5Q5 buses,
diverted from the Central Area.
While the conversion programme was underway the Central Area had a short-term single-decker crisis,
due to increases in the Romford area,
and seven of the 4Q4s awaiting conversion were repainted red and white with black roofs for a spell in the Central Area:
Q101-105 went to Cricklewood (W) for the 226 (Golders Green - Cricklewood Broadway,
and Q186-187 to Kingston (K). The Cricklewood quintet went back into works in March 1937,
and the Kingston duo went temporarily to Staines (ST) in February and to works in March.
The conversions for Green Line use entailed the fitting of a heater, luggage racks
and roof board brackets. A grille was fitted on the front panel,
but whether this was a dummy or related to the saloon heater I don't know.
It certainly identified them, and improved the front appearance.
They retained their bench seats,
which reduced their value as coaches for longer journeys.
They were reclassified as 1/4Q4/1.
The new coaches started to enter service in January 1937, and all were in use before the summer.
They replaced elderly Gilford coaches (GF class) from the Greenline fleet.
They went to Northfleet and Staines for the A1/A2,
Leatherhead for route L,
and Amersham for route R.
Route L disappeared in May 1937, and the 1/4Q4/1s from Leatherhead went to
Leavesden Road (WT) for route T instead.
Wartime saw all the 4Q4s on Country Bus duties.
Wartime trim included white front corners and reduced lighting.
Some were reseated internally, with peripheral seating all the way round,
reducing seating capacity, but with standee space increasing overall capacity.
The livery was altered to Lincoln green with white window surrounds,
and a brown roof. A few were painted grey for use in sensitive defence areas,
including nine at Addlestone that worked to the Vickers works at Weybridge.
1944 and 1945 saw the start of a return to normality.
The air-raid precautions were wound down,
and the buses returned to standard seating and livery as they went for overhaul.
The Qs were still scattered around the Country Area, and working hard.
1948 saw a surplus of single-deckers in the Country Area,
after the delivery of the postwar Regals, the 15T13s.
The Central Area was still desperate for buses of any shape, size or colour,
and welcomed an influx of 4Q4s.
They were repainted red, and went to West Green, for use on the 233
(Finsbury Park - Alexandra Park - Northumberland Park).
Drivers had some difficulties with the 4Q4s on the open sections of road
across Alexandra Park, where they claimed to be unable to see the edge of the road,
and the red 4Q4s were transferred to Dalston for the 208
(Clapton Pond - Hackney Wick - Old Ford - Bromley-by-Bow).
In 1950 the Central Area needed a float of buses to cover for the absence of 1T1s and LTL six-wheelers
during the refurbishment programme,
and further 4Q4s went to Kingston, where they received the postwar red livery.
They were not the last.
Further 4Q4s were drafted to Kingston to enable the retirement of the ancient 1/7T7/1s.
Some were repainted. Some retained green and white. Kingston was a mixed red and green bus town,
and the RFs were on the drawing board.
Kingston used them mainly on the 215 and 219, with some use on 218 short journeys:
None saw further work as service buses in the UK,
as the post-1948 rules prohibited their sale as psvs in the UK.
Contractors took some,
and a good number were exported by Norths to Tripoli, Cyprus and Malta.
London Transport kept Q55 for the LT Museum,
and converted Q75 into a Civil Defence service vehicle, Q1035CD,
in which guise it survived into the 1960s.
Q69 and Q83 were both used by Old People's Associations, in Gravesend and West Bromwich respectively.
Only the chassis survives of the former, but Q83 has been preserved and restored,
and is once again to be seen around the fringes of London.
bus histories
photographic references.
Bus Stop
Q index.
3Q3
4Q4